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David STONE for 

"Le Magasin de Magie" 

M.M : At what age did you start doing magic? What were your first inspirations and the first things you loved about magic ?

Stone : I started to train seriously ( I mean really in a more thoughtful way ) at 18 years old.  Magic interested me when I was a lot younger, and I toyed with some ideas, and learned some of the basic principles. The pace quickened when it became more than a mere passion, but a complete obsession.  I was doing nothing else but magic. It was an exiting time, and I confess I have amazing memories of discovering magic in Paris, in particular due to magic shops. Because it was the only place where you could constantly meet magicians and it was great.

I met my first two friends in magic there, Arnaud Debaisieux and Damien Vapro. They gave me access to their magic library, which between the two of them was already phenomenal !

My first inspirations in magic was through Gerard Majax’s books, which I found in these libraries.  It was in these books that I found addresses for all the shops in Paris.  My first role model is Gaëtan Bloom.  I was, and still am, crazy about this performer’s work, from the precision of his gestures used in his presentations to the magic itself.  Afterwards, I discovered other very talented magicians who influenced me through their work.  In particular, I think Gary Kurtz got the coin bug into me.

"...the fact that I initially opted for stagework 

allowed me to envisage 

a larger sphere of activity "

Did you start by specialising in close-up or stagework? Some say it is better to start with close-up, others say stage ? Is one more useful than the other? What path did you take?

    The first tricks that you learn are very often close-up, because they form the basis for everything. What were my first tricks? Card tricks which I learned from books, available for the general public, which I tracked down in the libraries in my area. I used to do martial arts and my teacher at the time had done a little magic. He gave me Hornecker catalogues ( Magix,a big shop in Strasbourg ) and let me work with his accessories. It was through thess means that I learned magic using ropes, silks, cups and Chinese rings. Straight away, I specialised in stage. I started doing my first shows six months later. Close-up only came about by force of circumstance. When I said to my friends that I was a magician, they asked me to perform a trick ! So, I went into close-up. As for my opinion on the best course for starting out, I think this question is too subjective to be generalised. What suited me perfectly well will not necessarily be to someone else’s liking. I think that the fact that I initially opted for stage allowed me to make a better use of space and this has influenced my close-up.

Does a particular work technique exist? Some magician work on a movement 500 times, what do you think about that?

      In my case, work technique is indispensable. I think that it is important to talk about various working techniques, everyone making different choices according to the objectives they set themselves. Turning to close-up, I’m one of these people who work tirelessly on the same move until “I feel I’ve got it”.  At the outset, I had a slate on which I drew 100 little lines, I put my mat on the desk and after having decided on one trick, I do it once, erase the line and continue until I have entirely cleaned the board of all the lines! I do not go onto another trick until I have completely mastered the one I’d set my mind on. Today, I confess, I rarely learn new techniques for my personal work. I work with determination, always performing the same tricks, because one day I’d like to have totally mastered them.

   What was your technique for preparing for the three competitions, in which you competed and succeeded ?

    These were quite difficult to prepare because I did not know what would happen at the competitions. So I decided to perfect an act lasting about 9 minutes which brought together everything I regularly did in close-up. I did not intend to include particularly difficult techniques because my audience would only be made up of magicians. On the contrary, I especially used what I do in public, my magic generally being vaguely technical anyway. I did not feel the need to add difficulties for the sake of it. 

The most difficult part was to organise the effects and put them in logical order, a raison d’être, which had to be justified in writing. This method allowed me to put together an act comprising of different tricks in one coherent number. Later, I simplified the effects and emphasised the visual aspect in order to make the effects as clear as possible ( be careful, this does not mean that it became easier to perform...). 

The last competition was the most complicated because I had to phonetically learn Spanish.  Before stepping foot in Cuba, I did not speak a word of Spanish. The funniest part of the story is that in the end, I was the only competitor to speak in a close-up act. All the others worked with music ! I believe that the competition gives you a fixed date, an ultimatum which forces you to succeed, to achieve something. It becomes an aim in itself and that is what makes the competitions a very interesting experience.  Even if afterwards we realise that it was not perfect, the act could be improved, we have got a structured piece of work which we can polish up at a later date with more experience.  

A piece of advice for when you are planning a competition.  Don’t add too much...avoid complicated tricks as they don’t serve any purpose.  Rather go straight to the point , then go back a bit if you have time and that really reinforces the effects and avoids an anti-climax. You can read Darwin Ortiz ( Kaufman & Greenberg ) in Strong Magic, I really think it’s an excellent piece of work which help you think up acts in close-up ).

"...It is not Stone’s hands 

you see in the video... "

How useful do you think it is to work and be open to other artistic forms which could be incorporated in magic?

   I think that a lot of beginners make the mistake of regarding learning magic as a succession of effects and new things.  Magic is first and foremost a question of presentation.  It is that which makes an effect magical or not.  The illusion itself is of no importance, it’s the impact which counts.  If it is very badly presented, a super trick will have a mediocre impact, whereas a small trick, very well presented can appear to be a real miracle.  Presentation makes all the difference.  That’s why you must be open and look around at what is happening around about you.  Not only to find magical inspiration, but also to use what is successful in other artforms.  Mime, for example, is something which can be done to explore gestures and body movements, in order to make better use of movement in your act.  The improvements can be seen in your presentation.  Drama too can teaches you how to develop a character on stage and improve diction.  Besides, I think that presentation, as a general rule, should not be limited to text or appearance, but should aim to create a character within a coherent act. 

For example, as far as I’m concerned, the magician should represent somebody inaccessible: In public, Stone is someone with a funny accent, always dressed extravagantly and bursting with energy.  In short, we don’t know where he came from nor where he is leading us to, but we know what he wants to achieve: Magic.  On the other hand, when I watch my videos, I don’t recognise myself.  It is not me as Stone, it is not Stone’s hands that you see in the videos, but David’s hands as a manipulator handling coins; the character is masked so as to place the emphasis on the technical effects being taught.  Besides being passionate about something, the practise of an art form is above all a question of sensitivity.  You must know how to make use of this sensitivity and to take an interest in everything related to your passion.  In a routine, it is not only technique and effects which count.  There is gesture, rhythm, timing, appearance, dress, diction, eye contact, dramatisation, weather...to cut a long story short, we’ve got a lot of work to do!

"...I can’t picture myself 

watching a one-and-a half  hour long video 

on Jean Pierre Coffe** and his secrets 

about  le Caneton à la Rouennaise..."

Your first video has sold in general shops such as "Games*"  for less than 200F( $30 ).  What do you think about that ?

    Initially that annoyed me, I had the feeling that magic was going to be discovered by “anybody and everybody”.  On top of that, I had no control over the distribution of the video because I’m not the producer of the Volume1.  That really put me out.  Then I became aware of a few things: Today, people don’t lash out 200 FF on something “just to see it”, or out of curiosity,  Besides, those who have the chance to see it, but don’t do magic themselves, have had enough by the end of the first explanation: it is too much for them ! Not being overly keen on cooking, I can’t picture myself watching a one-and-a half  hour long video on Jean Pierre Coffe** and his secrets about Caneton à la Rouennaise. And then I met people who started magic due to this video and who have rediscovered a passion which they thought they no longer had.  I think that there is a difference between teaching and revealing the secrets.  With the pedagogic structure of my two videos, I don’t think that I “reveal the secrets” but rather I “teach well”. On the other hand, what the French viewers will maybe see this winter on FR3 channel, in programmes called "Masked magician", will quite simply give away the "secrets" .  I don’t think that it will really harm the great illusions of today’s world, but it will certainly get a public reaction.

* General store in France  ** famous french cooker

What do you think about magic becoming more popular ?  What is your impression of the magic stands that can be seen in the hypermarkets, and which are on the increase in magic shops too? There are already seven of them in Paris!

    What do I think about Magic becoming more popular ? Well, it’s great! The more we talk about our profession, the more people want to come and see magic.  It’s a little bit like music, when we are brain-washed with a popular hit on the radio because it is played 50 times a day.  We end up liking it! But before reaching that point, better control must be exercised with regards to popularisation.  The TV programs which I’ve just mentioned above are not a good example of popularisation.  But it is interesting to note that these shows have attracted a record level of viewers in the states, beating an important football match and a Tom Cruise film.  That means that everyone is fairly interested in magic.  It is undeniable that it generates a lot of interest and questions.  It is up to us to capture the public’s interest by not giving away the secrets.

What do I think of the magic stands which you find everywhere nowadays ? I believe that they are far from harming our art, they allow people, who may never had had a chance to come across it, to start doing magic.  They discover they have an unsuspected interest in  illusion.  Certainly it is a shame for the Brainwave and the Thumb tip. 

For a long time now in Japan and the USA, there has been stands such as these and they are now commonplace.  In these two countries, at the moment, magic has never been doing so well.

In short, magic shops are on the increase, which can only enchant me for two reasons: As magic is my absolute passion, that gives me more choice for discovering new things and heightens the competition, giving me the chance to perform new tricks which were previously inaccessible.  As a video creator, that means extra sales outlets for my two videos !

"...When I’m really scared stiff, 

before a competition or something, 

I sing !"

How do you cope with stage fright, or do you suffer from it? What about during the competition?

    Stagefright is a difficult subject to define.  I must confess I’m not very good at dealing with it, and I’m quite prone to it.  I don’t generally get stagefright in close-up.  I feel as though I’ve done so many “tables” that I work without thinking about the act I’m doing.  It is more likely I’m thinking of ways to get the cute brunette’s phone number, whilst she is watching me with astonished eyes.  Seriously, stagefright catches me unawares and I can’t really control it : Competitions, very important performances, television, video etc.  I feel, at these moments, to be constantly tense and prone to stress which I can’t curb very well.  But that comes from the fact that on these occasions I’m constantly moving about, each time being faced with new and difficult situations.  It’s normal because ever since starting this job, I’m confronted with new situations everyday, and I particularly try to face up to them.  Stagefright in itself is an issue which I don’t handle with very well.  There is one thing I do however, When I’m really scared stiff, before a competition or something, I sing! I take a song which I know well and I sing it to myself at the top of my voice.  Personally that helps me a lot!

To turn to studying and magic, is it wise to advise somebody to finish their studies  before going pro?

"A good magician who arrives late,

 with dirty hands and comes to pinch my bee 

or a sponge ball because he has forgotten his own gear, 

will never be a good magician, nor a professional..."

Moreover, what does “being pro” mean for you? Are you “pro”?

"Today, job security doesn’t really exist. 

So if we have a chance to go into something that we like, 

why not be tempted ?"

It takes courage to take the plunge and become professional. What are your fears? What enabled you to do it ? How did your parents react to your decision?  Often magic is considered to be a good hobby and a bad job, because there are no future prospects and it is badly paid.  What do you think of these views?

    I don’t know if it takes courage, rather rashness or madness.  It is always something which I have achieved and I’ve slogged for.  I believe that taking the plunge itself is a question of wanting and choosing your own path in life.  To be honest, my fear at the moment is not having enough money to really live off my magic alone.  That’s why I’m working like mad.  I’m willing to struggle in order to succeed.  I want to establish as many contacts as possible and make as much “security money”.  I’d also like to take more time going up the scale and improving my stage act, which is one of my main aims in magic.  That is my way of seeing things.  With knowing what I know today, I perform magic, but tomorrow who knows...

My close friends( most of them, such as Steph’ Jardonnet and T’Charly Rosenberg, are in magic) and my parents helped ( and are still helping me) and encouraged me, knowing that above all you have to have faith in yourself.  Moreover, it is maybe that which made me more mature.  All these responsibilities to take on which I hadn’t as much though about when was only concerned with “student mum dad”, forced me to calm down and view things in life in a more reflective and pragmatic way.

It does not seem justified that magic is considered to be a job with no perspectives and badly paid.  As with all professions, there are highs and lows.  Today, job security doesn’t really exist.  So if we have a chance to go into something that we like, why not be tempted?

  "You are really naive if you believe 

all the bullsh** spread by losers..."

Does your passion for magic fade over time ?  Are you still as passionate as when you were an amateur ?  Have you other passions - apart from women and money...that's what I've heard about you !

    You are really naive if you believe all the bullshit spread by losers!  I don’t think that a passion fades, but rather that it evolves.  Your Magic takes on a different form and my approach today is first and foremost professional.  But it’s exciting!

I must admit to having little time to concentrate on what I really like in magic.  I’m stuck with coins.  But coin magic is only one of the branches that I like. In professional close-up, I do very little coin work.  I would even say that I’ve left coins by the wayside. The  Two Coin magic videos was really enough.  I really like impromptu magic, cards, sponge balls,...in fact, I practice a bit of everything in Close-up because my basic training was eclectic and I liked it’s diversity.  Above all, it’s stagework that I really fancy.  I hope to be able to get on with that soon.

I have other passions, such as the cinema or special effect make-up.  Unfortunately, I don’t have time to work at these, but deep down I know them very well.  Everything in it’s own time.

"The French are no more stupid 

than any other nation.  The test of this is that 

we are world champions in football !"

We’re speaking a lot about Copperfield.  Do you think the French public is ready for a Magic made in America ?

    The French took time to come round to Disneyland, you know.  Now, they are used to it.  As Copperfield’s performances are not common in our country, the French public is not really used to them.  It will take some time before that will work out.  Then what does a magic made in America signify? Does it mean a big show, special effects and many dancers?

I find this possibly extravagant behaviour great to watch personally.  Others would not like it.  Before the French public would be ready for a magic made in America, they should be prepared for magic full stop!  Compared with other countries, we have practically no TV programmes about magic, therefore little media coverage.  I think that it boils down to how much we want to highlight our art within society so that it is recognised, rather than by being at each other’s throat for years on end. The French are no more stupid than any other nation.  The test of this is that we are world champions in football !  Therefore, if this form of show magic gained widespread popularity, I definitely think the French would follow. 

What do you think of the French audience in general?

      As a general observation?  Compared to the American or the English, they don’t inspire me so much.  Luckily, there are exceptions to all the rules and that applies here too.  However, being faced with the French public is a good guide as they are one of the most feared audiences in the world.  It is true that working with the British or the Americans is totally different.  When you say to an American “I’m going to do a trick for you”, he is thinking, “Super! on you go, bluff me.  Go and entertain me with a trick which I will not understand at all”.  The French person says to himself, “Go on then, try and get me then, just to see...” I’m exaggerating, but that could be described coarsely in that way.  Also the conditions are not the same and entertainment is interpreted differently.  Magic becomes a little like a mind game, where the aim is to discover what the other person is presenting, and not leave it as an illusion.

"We don’t do magic on the TV, but TV magic..."

In times gone by, José Garcimore, Gérard Majax made a breakthrough; today, it is Bernard Bilis, Sylvain Mirouf and Gilles Arthur, in vain?  What do you think about magic and TV?

      I don’t think they are making a breakthrough, but they are making or have made a name for themselves, and are representative of our Art in the public’s eye.  I sometimes hear magicians criticise each other or say a bad word against TV artists.  And by reacting in this way, they destroy the image which the general public forms about magic , because we must not forget that these artists are the true representatives of magic for the general public.  It is their only point of reference because people don’t have the chance to see a magician perform every day.  TV is a means of communicating and promoting magic, which must be put to good use.  The little which I was able to ascertain through conversing with Sylvain Mirouf was that we don’t do "magic on TV”, but "TV magic".  It is a new type of situation.  Personally speaking, I say well done to everyone who does it, because I’m not sure I’d be able to do as much.  The only thing which I regret is that there is not enough magic on TV in France.  The public would be in a position to judge what they like and dislike, because there would be more points of reference.

Have you an anecdote from the filming of a video or your other magic experience?

    I quite often find myself in delirious situations, but lately something happened which was particularly amusing.  Sometimes I perform a trick in which a ring is transformed into a key and then it is found again in a padlocked box held by a member of the audience.  Now, one evening in Close-up when I was hired for Joan Collin’s birthday ( she is the star of "Dallas).  I decided to put this trick into my act and go round from table to table. 

I approach the star’s table as planned and borrow her ring.  Already, I feel the tension is rising and a sudden silence prevails.  I then become aware of the fact that the ring is very expensive.  OK, this causes no problem, I said to myself, off I go and I exchange it for the key and when I reach the point where I have to place it discreetly in the box, it will not go in!  It is too big with too many diamonds.  What a frenzy I got into ! Although that completely broke my rhythm, I decided not to force it in, as that could have made it a very expensive evening !  I had to finish the trick by changing it into a key for no apparent reason, just to find it on my finger again.  What a relief I felt in handing the ring back to the rightful owner at the table and it makes me laugh when I think of the struggle I had putting this damned ring into this little box !

On the contrary, if for the sake of marketing, 

I noticed I had to do competitions 

in close-up again , I’d do them.

What are your future projects? Marriage, a third video, an Afap, Ron McMillan or a Fism competition? Marketing of your tricks and lectures?

      At the moment, I am working a lot in close-up as part of a three month contract in St Tropez, France.  Then until December, I will be doing galas abroad.  Following that there are Christmas parties and all the caboodle.  I’m going to make the most of the new year to entirely concentrate on my stage act which I’ve started creating with friends.  I am equally finishing my two lecture notes.  I’m suggesting a lecture on coins which goes from simple to very technical, as well as a lecture on general magic in close-up, stage and table hopping conditions.  Most of all it is the educational aspect which I’m selling, not only the technical aspect.  I left competitions by the wayside for the moment.  I feel absolutely no need to prove anything.  Maybe if my stage act was a great success, I’m not saying that I would not enter into more competitions. On the contrary, if for the sake of marketing, I noticed I had to do competitions in close-up again, I'd do them.

Have you any advice to give to young people starting out?  What tricks would you suggest in order to work on comedy and timing?

      The problem is that I think of myself as a beginner.  So I could give advice of a technical nature, but it is more difficult to advise on the magic itself or how to do the job.  I can only advise doing a lot of reading.  Not only does it improve your english, but lets you find out a lot of things which you can’t obtain from a video.  Try to meet as many magicians as you can and exchange tricks.  For those who already have a level of knowledge, don't hold back from going in for competitions so as to put your work in context as it orientates and help your act be a success.   At the end of the day, if you want to be really good at something, you can’t do anymore than that.  The problem with learning about magic today is that it is too diverse.  If you learn a bit of everything, you’re not working in an organised fashion.  It is important to know  when to stop and look into the problem seriously so as to explore the possibilities and by the same token, discover our own capabilities.  I believe that going about it in this way can help us become a true artist.

Thanks David !

by Damien Vappereau. August 1997.

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